196 Holiday Classic Christmas in Palestine with Mai Kakish

Welcome Mai!

There wasn’t much question about which episode I would release first – of course, we had to begin in the Holy Land of Palestine, the very land where the birth of Jesus took place. Today I’m grateful to welcome Mai to the podcast (again!) to share her memories celebrating the Christmas tree lighting at the sacred Church of the Nativity in Manger Square in Bethlehem.

She also talks Chrstmas celebrations in the rest of Palestine, including in Ramallah, where the Muslim-majority government hosts annual Christmas parade, full of drums and music, as a way to include Christians and promote Palestinian unity.

Of course, we’ll hear more about Mai’s Teta (grandmother) and the other women and recipes that created the amazing Arabic feasts for their Christmas tables.

Finally, Mai shares how Palestine is choosing to celebrate the peace and joy of Christmas in the midst of decades of checkpoints, arrests, death, and struggle amid the Israeli military occupation.

I am just delighted to share the delightful Mai and her Christmas memories with you today – welcome to the podcast, Mai, and thank you all for being here!

Highlights

• The Christmas tree lighting in Bethlehem
• The unity between Christians and Muslims in Ramallah
• Weather at Christmastime in Palestine
• Mai’s memories visiting The Church of the Nativity for the Christmas Tree lighting
• Christmas music in Palestine
• Christmas markets in Palestine
• How Christmas in Palestine brings hope and resistance in the face of occupation
• Special treats available at Christmastime in Palestine
• Her Aunt Ida’s goodie bag
• Christmas presents in Palestine (and Father Christmas)
• Wreath decorating parties at the church
• “Christmas presents weren’t a thing”
• ALL the Palestinian Christmas foods!
• The importance of visiting in Palestinian Culture
• Two Christmases: December 25th and January 6th
• Celebrating epiphany at the Jordan River
• Cooking with "Nafas"

Listen to Mai Now

Follow The Storied Recipe in Your Favorite Player

Mai's Storied Recipe: Ghraybeh Cookies

Related Episodes

Related Recipes

Related: Listen to Mai's Original Episode, Honoring the Women of Palestine

Listen now

Partial Transcript - 15 of 60 Minutes

Becky

Hey Mai, how are you?

Mai

Hey hey hey how are you?

Becky

I'm good. I'm so happy to be talking with you again.

Mai

Hey listen, we could do this whenever you want. It's always a pleasure. Yeah, I'm really excited about it. It's my favorite time in Palestine and actually thinking about it when you sent me the questions yesterday made me want to go. I haven't been home during Christmas time for years and years and it really made me long even further to kind of like be there during the holiday season.

Becky

I mean 'cause yeah, yeah you go. During the summer?

Mai

You know what? Because I don't have enough vacation days with my children to go in the wintertime. I mean I'm paying all this money I'm not going to go for 10 days or week, it's it's barely enough. To get over the jet lag and drive my mother nuts. It's almost like now I'm starting to answer your questions. Here we go. The story. The Christmas scene had changed through times and I you know when I lived in Palestine when I was born and raised there those first you know, 18 years of my life, or actually maybe 21 years of my life, it's changed over the years and it kind of brings me in a way a little more joy and and that makes me want to go back and be there.

Becky

OK, so if you if you did, like let's just say in two months it's October 24th when we're doing this, so let's say you landed on Christmas Eve in Palestine in two months.

Mai

Let's go.

Becky

What would you... let's imagine it. Walk me through it.

Mai

It yes, OK if I would go to Palestine in two months and land.... Actually the preparations for Christmas start long before the weekend, the weekend before Christmas. For Christmas Eve, so there would be lots of preparation, starting with the tree lighting in Manger Square in Bethlehem. So that's a huge event that actually marks all the holidays and it's assigned to light up all the trees across the big cities in Palestine. Honestly, that brings me pure pure joy to see this gigantic tree in the middle of the square - we call it [phrase in Arabic] Church of the Nativity, right into Manger Square. They light the wall at the tree and people from all over - whoever can obviously, based on permissions and based who lives where and checkpoints and curfews and all that stuff. But it's a filled town at that moment and there's choirs of Palestinian people usually from all over Palestine. There are choirs, international choirs that come and perform at Manger Square, so it's a really quite an event. Uhm, yes, that that marks the beginning of Christmas season, which actually is the Advent. So it's the beginning of Advent season in Palestine.

Becky

So does that happen? Does that happen 4 weeks before? Like when does? When does Advent begin?

Mai

I don't. I don't know exactly when the church lights up because that's the Catholic Church that lights up the candle.

Becky

Ah yeah.

Mai

There's two Christmases in Palestine, maybe, maybe 3 even between all the denominations, but I grew up in the Anglican church so the Protestant, uh, the Protestant, the way I grew up is that we would celebrate the advent beginning of December. So every weekend it would be a weekend of leading up to Christmas time. So yes. My guess is the Christmas tree lights up the first week.

Becky

Well, if it's Catholic, Roman Catholics, they definitely do the four Sundays before... , so whenever. Yeah, if Christmas is Monday through Saturday, yeah then you would start the Sunday before and count back four, and that's when they would begin, yeah?

Mai

So my guess is it's the first week of Christmas of the Christmas season. Advent is when they light up the tree in in Bethlehem. Also in recent years there has been a church lighting in big cities all over Palestine, like Ramallah. Christmas in Ramallah is the place to be. I'm telling you yes, more so than in the city of Bethlehem.

Becky

Oh, really, more so than in Bethlehem?

Mai

It is.

Speaker

Why’s that?

Mai

Ramallah is a Palestinian City that's considered the center, the center hub of all the villages nearby. All the cities. Really, these ceremonial.... They do have some kind of spiritual significance, but it's very, very cultural. Very cultural, so all the communities, Muslims and Christians come out to celebrate the tree lighting and in fact the nativity scene and the tree lighting in Bethlehem is done by the church. But in Ramallah it's done by the municipality. So a lot of Muslims put on this effort to put on the tree and do the tree lighting.

Becky

Wow, that is amazing. That is just amazing.

Mai

It is significant. It is. It's beautiful and you asked me about the weather. Well, it's winter time in Palestine or actually I mean it's a mild winter. Usually in Palestine we've seen it, you know where, where... Thanks to global warming? I mean, you would have some cold winters. You would have some snow at some point, but it is, I mean, it's the weather is usually pretty decent. I mean you can make do with a jacket. Maybe gloves.

Becky

So would it be kind of like San Francisco here in the US?

Mai

Kind of like San Diego, more than San Francisco.

Becky

Yep, OK, OK

Mai

More like San Diego, I would say. More like San Diego, maybe a little bit colder. Actually it depends where in Palestine. It could be a little bit colder.

Becky

Yeah, OK.

Mai

OK, it goes down to probably 40 degrees. Oh, I would say that would be a good winter.

Becky

At night?

Mai

At day.

Becky

OK, 40 degrees during the day?

Mai

During the day, yes, so it could.

Becky

Oh wow, OK, so yeah.

Mai

Be colder at night.

Becky

Really quite cool so.... What kind of tree is it that is lit in Bethlehem's manger square? It's not an Evergreen tree?

Mai

It's, uh, you know. I think it is, actually, Becky.

Becky

OK.

Mai

I remember as a child we would get Evergreen trees in our homes. But also due to that Intifada, when I was little we couldn't really access a lot of trees, so we would do. We started doing artificial this where we can hide them and nobody you know, we hid them. We couldn't really put the tree in front of the house and do lighting in the occupied Palestinian territories. It was all like spiritual celebrations and it was kind of like you know the light on Christmas was kind of dim at that time. This is when I was in Palestine during the first and the second Intifadas?

Becky

I see I see any religious observation was shut down.

Mai

Yeah, I mean they would do, they would do the Christmas Eve. The midnight mass will go on and all that stuff, but a lot of the festivities won't take place and in fact growing up during the First Intifada, that's when I remember - vividly remember - once we didn't really have a tree lighting in Bethlehem. Because the country was mourning over our, you know, people who are dying.

Speaker

Yeah, yeah.

Mai

You know all the things that were taking place because of Israeli occupation. So very often the celebrations were cancelled. Right, OK, and they would take place in a private, you know privately in your home. Uhm, therefore, even secretly like my father would not put the Christmas tree where anybody can see it.

Becky

But even secretly, more so than privately....

Mai

It would be like a small Christmas tree in our bedrooms just for us as little children.

Becky

Isn't that incredible? That is just every time I talk to you, it just it's it just washes over me, what you’ve endured.

Mai

But I always say you know that the that Christmas book, the children's book or you know what is? It called the Christmas Carol, not Christmas Carol... where the train the train.... and the North Pole?

Becky

Oh, The Polar Express?

Mai

Polar Express, you know how he had the little bell and he said, "The bell rings for all those who can hear or believe." And for me as a child, I always envisioned regardless whether the Christmas tree was off or not, I always, you know, in my in my imagination, it was always up. And the lights were always in my imagination they were everywhere.

Becky

Amazing, oh that's amazing. I think there probably is nowhere spent more special in the world to celebrate Christmas than in Palestine, where the birth of Christ occurred in Bethlehem. Do they think that they, you know, this church, this Catholic Church - You said it's called Nativity Square?

Mai

Nativity Church. Outside, where the activities take place, it's in Manger Square.

Becky

OK.

Mai

So it's right outside the Manger square they call it, which is right outside the church doors.

Becky

OK, so do they, do they think that they have any idea if this was where Christ was born? Or are they guessing? How did they choose the location?

Mai

I mean.

Becky

It's just by tradition, Christian tradition?

Mai

It's beautiful. I mean nothing is done because of traditions. A lot of investigation, lot of history, a lot of archaeology goes into finding the locations where things took place. I'm I'm not sure of that. The definite idea of the place, but that's where they believe and I mean, the church is as old as... I mean, there is a little bit of remodeling happening because the church is thousands of years old, so you would see a little bit... But I mean that humbleness and the door entering into Bethlehem's manger square is literally a square. I want to say probably 4 feet by 4 feet by three feet if not shorter. Yeah, it's a tiny, tiny door. And there that's a reason all the celebrations take place outside of the church. At the annual Christmas Eve celebration, mass takes place inside the church and I'll tell you a little bit more about that.

But the tree lighting happens in right outside that little door. It's called the Manger Aquare and they put the big tree up and often there's a big stage for groups from all around Palestine and international groups that would come singing Christmas carols during the Advent season. And plays take place there on the stage as well, and people gather, it's such a beautiful scene. I I would love to send you some pictures to add to whatever it is you're doing and and you know right across from that square.

Becky

Oh yes.

Mai

There's little sellers that would usually carry cards of corn or whatever, seasoned chestnuts and roasting them and selling them right outside of all these festivities. There's a lot of lights everywhere. The municipality is down the street and a mosque is right across the street. It is a beautiful scene. It really is.

Becky

That's amazing.

Mai

It's a beautiful scene.

Becky

Yeah, I feel like I just want to sit and imagine it for a moment.

Mai

I wish I sent you the pictures prior. This way you can actually envision that with.

Becky

Does it feel like? I mean, this is such a dramatic word - Does it feel like Holy Ground when you're there?

Mai

You know, when I was, I'm gonna be honest when I was younger, I took it for granted. It's something we did all the time. It's like you know my aunt lives on the outskirts of Bethlehem by the Dheisheh by the refugee camp. And it was, you know, we would go there all the time. So you take things for granted. But it wasn't until I left home that I understood the significance of what we have at home. I mean people who live in Palestine, who live in the Bethlehem, of course they understand the value of and the importance and the significance of this holy place. I mean, everywhere you go into that church, there's silence. There's a little, you know you can light candles up. You can't be loud, it's not it... It's a very, very humble, I mean you, you feel humbled walking into something so grand and so so old.

Becky

I see I see.

Mai

So old, whether you're, I mean actually it's funny, not funny, but this past trip in the summer when I took the girls come into the Nativity we saw a Muslim family. Walked in to visit the Manger where Jesus believed you know that they laid Jesus, where Jesus Christ was born. And they my dad is, you know, he he's really, he knows a lot about historical locations and his you know significance of it and stuff. Like that so he was talking to this man and his family for probably 45 minutes explaining why we believe there. This is the birthplace of Jesus and you know the significance of this place. And it's beautiful because people from all, faiths, all religion or religions are welcome in to come into the the church.

Becky

Oh, that's beautiful. Man, I want to go there so badly. You know I've I've kind of.

Mai

And hope you do one day.

Becky

I feel like the desire to go with John, you know has been growing, and honestly, I definitely feel like talking to you, really lit a fire, but to go at Christmas time. How, how amazing would that be?

Mai

There's a huge sense of community. I mean, aside from the obvious, which is the spiritual significance of the location of Bethlehem and why these events take place there, just to see the Community come out together. I mean, the Christians are the very very tiny minority in Palestine. I don't even think we make 2% of the population, so this this Christian minority is really celebrated and you know during times like Christmas it's so beautiful to know that uh, the Muslim community acknowledges the people who are part of this land, part of the history of this land, and and just a beautiful thing to see people from all over just kind of, you know, get out and do the celebrations. There's a lot of Christmas parades that happened leading up to Christmas. [Arabic term] we call in Arabic, which is the Christmas parade and the Palestinian scouts kind of roam the streets. They they go on a march with their drums and it's it, I mean, each church or each community has their own scouts, troops, marching bands and they all go marching in order until we get to the Manger Square, it's such a beautiful and powerful scene. The music is so loud that the drums, the way they are pounding the drum, I mean, you can hear it from so far. And the location of Bethlehem it's on a hill, I mean, and you can see.... It's like it's almost like it echoes through the villages and the towns are surrounding Bethlehem, which is [Arabic words] and others are, It's such a it's such a significant. Uhm, time of the year I think.

Becky

The music is it, uh? I think of the traditional Christmas carols that we sing, and they're all European, aren't they?

Mai

Absolutely yes.

Becky

Are they more like a Palestinian? I mean, I'm sure there's Palestinian types of music.

Mai

It depends on.

Becky

Yeah, tell me about that.

Mai

It depends on the congregation, and it depends on the congregation. For example, like my Protestant church is very much like the hymns we sing at a Catholic Church or the Lutheran churches. It's very, very similar, except they are sung in Arabic. There are composers and right, you know, songwriters that have done music in the past, you know they've written their own music with their own Middle East, Middle Eastern or Arabic instruments, so there is that. But there's also the very traditional I mean - Silent Night all these songs. In fact I had such a hard time when I first moved to US, asked singing them in English. I had no idea what the words were, but it wasn't really hard to follow along because I would sing them in Arabic and it was really nice. It felt, you know, when I go to a church it felt like home.

Becky

It's very universal.

Mai

With the music, yes. So yeah, a lot of a lot of traditional hymns are sung, but also you get choirs, different choirs, international choirs that sing in their own languages as well, and so choirs from all around the West Bank.

Becky

OK. Now when you talk about the celebrations in Ramallah and that these are actually run by the municipality, which is mostly Muslim and...

Mai

Absolutely yeah.

Becky

And you said that the celebrations are less religious and more cultural, like in what ways do you celebrate the culture at a Christmas in Ramallah?

Mai

What I mean by culture, it means that the whole community is welcome to come out. These are not events are designed just for the Christian community. These are events done by municipality. In fact they throw this big giant party prior to the lighting of a giant Christmas tree. The municipality throws and they even pass out liquor to the local Christians. It's really beautiful to be acknowledged by the community. And the significance is that Palestinians, Arabs, Palestinian Christians.... The significance of Palestinian Christians in the land, so what I mean by cultural is that everyone is welcome. These things take place, the tree lighting at the beginning of the Christmas season.

And I would, umm, I think a little bit is starting a little bit into a commercial side. Which is also it's also good for the economy. It's a good reason for people to show off their crafts, and you know recipes and desserts, and you know, and it's evident all over the city of Ramallah. And my mother was telling me about a bazaar that takes place in Ramallah every single year for Christmas called Chocolate and Coffee and and vendors, whether a nonprofit or organizations or companies, they would come and display all their goods, whether it's handmade goods: you know homemade jams and desserts and crafts, and companies, are showing off new products that they're selling. The whole town comes out for these events, yeah?

Becky

It's like the famous Christmas markets of Europe.

Mai

And it's a good time, yeah? Exactly, so this has been taking place.... This is not something I witnessed as a as a teenager. This is new. It wasn't, I mean it was when I was a child, but then there was the occupation and so on. These things weren't done anymore, so it's so beautiful to see them come back and you know, it just shows you that people want life. People want peace, they want to live, they want to have joy. Uhm, so these things are a good sign to me, they're. A good sign of hope.

Becky

Absolutely, absolutely. So when you walk around... So again, so speak more to the commercial nature of it.... When you walk around, would you see other signs of Christmas coming, you know? Are you going to see, you know, special things in bakeries? Are you going to see lights out? Are you going to see decorations in front of people's homes or do you really have to go to these special places to see some of these signs?

Mai

Yeah, absolutely, and this is what I mean by cultural. It's almost like it becomes it's like a reason to celebrate. So everybody starts doing this, at least the major cities. I can't say every city in Palestine or small town or village in Palestine. There's, uh, there's some Christian dominated villages in Palestine, though, so you will see a lot of that. But also Ramallah is huge, Bethlehem is. Uh, different parts. Also, northern Palestine like Nazareth, the same thing you know it's as significant as it is in Bethlehem, so there's a lot of, that you would see signs of Christmas everywhere from the music, from the displays on the shop, displays from even restaurants. Every restaurant pretty much or coffee shop would have a small or big Christmas tree. Balconies are now strung with Christmas lights. When I was a child, we've never done any of that, so it's kind of, it's almost like I really want to go and relive all that and soak it all in.

Becky

Oh, I want that for you.

Mai

Yes, it's like I want to see that in my own eyes, not just through, you know what my mother sent me. But the shops, in fact, my mother was doing a trip into Nazareth looking for fabric. She's working on something and she said he's already doing Christmas fabric and it's I mean, it's October, yes, so there this is called the preparation period. The period leading up to Christmas where this shop started getting all the I mean, Christmas things: Chocolate Santas are everywhere, chocolate ornaments are everywhere. Candies, nuts, roasted seeds, drinks liquor. Uh, you know. It's very, very common to offer shots of liquor when people come to your house.

Becky

Is it Uduk?

Mai

It's not that. Actually, it's like it's almost like Irish cream or things like that. Like yeah, yes like a fruit liqueur like and coffee like Irish cream. The type of liqueurs that would be offered during Christmastime. Anything that's with rum, spiced rum. So yes, bakeries would take on making cakes specifically for Christmas, cookies with sprinkles, or specific for Christmas. So yes, it is an opportunity also to grow the city or to rejuvenate the Palestinian economy as well.

Becky

Yes, yes yes. And like you said just to celebrate something to be hopeful.

Mai

Do I hate to be hopeful to be exactly exactly exactly? So yes. I mean it's it's. It's there's there is that there are signs and I remember the smells in particular there is something about, I mean, that's that's again, you have to remember. I haven't been to Christmas in Palestine for years and years, but some things just don't leave you. I remember like the week leading up to Christmas, my mom would be so busy, like stocking up on all the roasted nuts and seeds and they would take on like this scent, you know, the fresh coffee, scented with cardamom. It's like you go to the what do you call that shop?, It's like, it feels like the nuthouse. I mean, I don't know you don't have something equivalent to it here, but you would sell coffee, nuts and chocolates. I don't know what that would be, so these are very common.

Becky

Sounds like heaven.

Mai

It is. These shops are very, very common in Palestine and every town, every village has their own little shop that sells there. You know, freshly roasted coffee, all kinds of seeds, and they'll be displayed in baskets and all kinds of nuts from you know, scented nuts with cinnamon to just regularly roasted nuts and so forth and then a ton of options for chocolates, all kinds of colors, all kinds of shapes and Easter also. Same thing, you would see bunnies and eggs and so forth. I still remember, one of my favorite things together and I still do it to my children: I get chocolate.

Speaker

Of course.

Mai

But the my Aunt Aida was so famous for her chocolate little goodie bag and it was it was often German chocolate. I don't know if they're locally made now, but it was like Santa's and a couple ornaments put in a pouch. With the with a gold bow. That was it. That was Christmas. Maybe you get socks too, I don't know. It's not a joke, that‘s Palestinians for you!

Becky

Yeah, let's talk about your family a little bit - what did Christmas mean to you as a family?

Mai

So I did grow up in a Christian family. My parents aren't super religious, so that my relationship with the church was always by my grandfather and my Aunt Aida, who is my dad, my dad’s, sister. She lived above us and she was in charge of taking us to church all the time. So we developed a habit to go to church and we grew up in Lutheran school. So, I mean church was part of the routine you would go to church during the holidays. We'd go to church every Sunday, we went to Lutheran school and all that stuff, so Christmas was no exception. In fact, I loved it so much that I even joined the church choir, the school choir. So it was a big deal. I participated in the church play. I would definitely read or carry candles. Again, I grew up in Anglican church, so we would carry candles going down or the cross and march down the aisle in the in the church. My church was in Jerusalem on the outside of the old city, right outside Old City and so I would participate in all these events. When I was older I joined, you know, as a teenager later on, I would join the bell choir and the plays.

Becky

I didn't know music was such a part of your life like that. You know, I know that cooking is, but I didn't know that music was.

Mai

I mean, I'm not.

Becky

It's just a nice thing to know about you personally.

Mai

Listen, I didn't say it was good.

Becky

Oh stop.

Mai

Oh Becky, I'm not joking I I I have, it was meaningful.

Becky

But it was meaningful to you.

Mai

I guess I did not make it to play any instrument fully. I mean due to many factors we're not going to go down that road - due to many, many things. I mean, I would start on piano lessons and the intifada broke. We couldn't make lessons. I just started with the flute. That didn't work. Trumpet that didn't work. It's almost like... Remember in the the first conversation we had. What's your hobbies? I didn't have time. We didn't have chances to think of hobbies, but the times we had the things that were associated with the church, those were those were significant and those were things that always took place.

Becky

Right?

Mai

Whether there is an intifada or not, we always went to church for the Christmas Eve service. We always sang at church, so these things, regardless of the situation. So I was able to join these things and they brought so much joy to me. And you know, growing up and yeah, so from that perspective we would go to church every advent. My church was amazing. During Christmas, I learned from a young age every Sunday, the first Sunday in December, we would gather. The whole church gathers and we would build a wreath from fresh evergreens and the wreath would have the four candles and every Sunday we would light a candle together so we would light it at the church. But then we also have the - We would take this wreath to our house and you know, as a family we would light a candle every Sunday marking the advent on Sundays leading up to Christmas. So that was a tradition.

Becky

That's beautiful that you would build the wreath together at church.

Mai

Yes, as a church community we always got together. I know I remember they used to buy falafel sandwiches for everybody. If I remember correctly, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it was falafel sandwiches and it was such a fun time because it was a competition among all the women who's gonna build the best one,

Becky

Oh, that's amazing and evergreens too, so where do evergreens grow in Palestine?

Mai

Actually there's a lot of evergreens in Palestine. There's a lot of pine trees and Palestine. I mean, you have to remember there's a lot of mountains, all over Palestine.

Becky

Yeah, I mean, I'm almost ashamed really to be honest with you with my, uhm, my shallow understanding. You know, like I just think so hot, so desert you know what I mean?

Mai

My goodness.

Becky

I shouldn't be so surprised to hear about all these evergreens.

Mai

No, but Palestine is so green. There's a lot of evergreens. Becky, in Palestine there's a lot of pine trees that I don't know. All the names, significant names of all the trees that are Evergreen, but I mean it's some and we reuse even the pine cones to decorate that wreath as well. So every part of that you know, they the church would drop off a big container of all these evergreens. I don't know where they used to get them, maybe? Somebody that would go clip them. I have no idea, but it would come to the church and the hall and the the community comes together. Children play and try to put together a wreath as a family, it was a was a beautiful event.

Becky

That sounds just so beautiful.

Mai

Until this day up till this day, I love doing the wreath with my family.

Mai

And yeah, at church we would light the candle as a church community. Uh, you know the pastor would pray and then the prayers and the hymns and all that stuff, and he would light the candle every Sunday. But at home it was, it was yeah, I mean they you are welcome to share a prayer usually, but it wasn't anything in forced like in a religious way.

Becky

I see I see I see.

Mai

We did not grow up in a religious or super religious or anything like that. But a lot of things were celebrated, and you know, just growing up in a in a Lutheran school as well. We, you know, went to Lutheran school from preschool all the way to 12th grade.

Becky

Right?

Mai

You know you're instilled into, you know you start doing things.

Becky

Sure, yes, yes.

Mai

Differently than you know, my parents would.

Becky

Yes, it's just interwoven into the fabric of some of your routines and life and thinking.

Mai

I mean, yeah, we were always encouraged to go to church. In fact, it was my favorite thing to do with my grandfather when I was little. He would take us to church on. Sundays he would. Hold our hands and right after church there was a little shop across the street and he would always take my sister and I to buy candy. And till this day I remember this moment. So I mean. A lot of things happened out of tradition. But they become significant, significant as life goes on.

Becky

Yes, this is so true. This is so. True, now how about the the opposite end? Well, maybe it's the same in some ways... But you know, we have the religious celebration, but then there's just the consumerism, the materialism that is certainly associated with Christmas in America. It's one of my biggest pet peeves.

Mai

Yes it is mine.

Becky

And I'm curious what that was like in Palestine. Were presents and the give and take such a big thing in Palestine. Or was it really just these little bags that your Aunt Aida would give you?

Mai

Yeah, no Christmas presents weren't the thing. In fact, actually OK. You know my kids might laugh at this one, but your Christmas present? Actually, it's almost something you picked that you wear on Christmas Day, so you already know what your gift is.

Becky

Oh yeah, OK.

Mai

So it wasn't really anything my parents were never really into. We never really got big presents. My grandfather would probably or my grandma even, you know, they would give us maybe like 20 let's say equivalent to $20. Maybe Aunt Aida would always give us that chocolate Santa. Sometimes she'll include PJS and socks, sometimes just socks. But there's the gifts. I don't remember it wasn't anything significant. It was, uhm, in fact my dad when we were a little bit older, there was a toy shop that opened straight behind the church and we were shocked when this tradition started that he would take us to the toy shop and we would pick a Christmas present, imagine. It was amazing. I mean people didn't get gifts like we do now. I mean now it's like you know the children have, you know, not one, not 2, not 3, about 5.....

Listen now for more about the Santa Claus mask Mai hopes to inherit from her mother, family Christmas celebrations around a delicious Middle Eastern meal...